I didn’t want to be an ‘Activist’
So much has changed over the years with regard to attitudes to accessibility, even since Crown Lane Studio started taking positive steps over a decade ago. This blog is intentionally a little different in that the voices are not ours at the studio, John and Lawrence take a back seat. Our two guests are both working in the industry, both have recorded here, and both are disabled musicians.
The answers are informal, and this blog post aims to amplify the conversations and experiences for the benefit of many more people into the future. Please share this article with venues, studios, performing arts colleges, theatres, your friends, EVERYWHERE – to help increase the impact of the issues raised and celebrate where positive change is taking place. This is a really important conversation.
The full conversation is available on the Crown Lane Podcast, Episode 11.
Although this is heavily truncated, the narrative is as close to the original conversation as possible.
Introducing Miss Jacqui and John Kelly:
Where do things need to change, and where are changes happening?
Let’s begin with something positive. There seems to be a greater understanding that we’re moving from ramps and toilets, to more nuanced considerations such as ‘rest’ and ‘wellbeing’.
John: The world of work and the music industry has been made to fit a certain type of person, a certain way of working. And that doesn’t work for everyone. And sometimes what needs to happen, you need to rip that all up and think about the things that are really important to people – like rest, and wellbeing and those kinds of things.
And that’s part of accessibility. I was at an event last night and the topic of rest came up. Drake Music was presenting a feature about rest and there was somebody there talking about how if you look at the seasons, trees for example do have a rest, and the flowers, appearing in the summer, but not trying to produce all year round.
Access is about being in tune with your body and knowing what you need to do to make something work. And as an artist, I’ve learned from my experience how to make things work for me. And so I have to rip up the rule book of gigging or whatever it is, and then remake it so that it works for me, the band, and the audiences that I want to have at my gigs. And that means sometimes having to change the venue.
With venues, and Access Riders, is there any sort of resistance?
Jacqui: When it comes to venues specifically, there are two things that happen. Either venues are incredible, super accessible – but super expensive to perform there, to book a space or to even rehearse there.
Or they’re really affordable and they’re in a basement!
So the question is: what do I have to sacrifice? And if I physically can’t get into the basement, I have to pay a little bit extra to get into the venue that has the access that I need. A lot of the venues that I went to when I wanted to see new acts and stuff are in basements or up a flight of stairs that are like super duper narrow, or they’re just in venues that aren’t accessible for some of the audience or artists.
The venues that are the “go to” venues for up and coming artists are often inaccessible. So the industry is missing out on a whole demographic of super duper talented, deaf disabled, neurodivergent artists because of a building.
The music industry is very prehistoric. “This is how we manufacture artists, this is how we push them out, this is, this is what it is”. But we live in a world where that idea is being challenged constantly and there are a lot more artists who are speaking out about being “cookie cutter”, we don’t all fit in this mould of what you think an artist should or shouldn’t be.
“And I think one of the hesitancies…is there’s a lot of fear about saying, you know, if I’ve got an Access Rider, should I give people my full access ride because I’m a bit too demanding or I’m a bit too, you know, I need all these different things than maybe a, uh, a non disabled artist might need.”
Can you name a disabled artist in the top hundred? When you go to festivals, where are the disabled artists in the lineup? There’s this huge conversation about women being on lineups. But as a woman, as a black woman, as a disabled black woman, where are my people? Why are they not on stage? There is a lot that needs to change in the industry and I’d like it to change in my lifetime.
John: What is interesting about what you’re saying about “are there any disabled people in that top hundred” or whatever, is: there probably are.
“And I think one of the hesitancies from, um, from our side, our people kind of side of the story is there’s a lot of fear about saying, you know, if I’ve got an Access Rider, should I give people my full access ride because I’m a bit too demanding or I’m a bit too, you know, I need all these different things than maybe a, uh, a non disabled artist might need.”
Modern venues aren’t necessarily where I want to play
It does tend to be modern venues that can afford to have better physical buildings and more modern equipment and that sort of stuff. And I kind of hate that, because I really want an old, creaky, floor-ed kind of venue, because that’s the kind of style I like.
And what I then find is attitude comes into play because if you get the right attitudes then it can nearly always work. I’ve been to and played at bikers gigs and all sorts of gigs where access has not really been thought about. But they would work so hard to make it accessible and they build ramps and they’d hire in an accessible bathroom just to get me on the bill.
I didn’t want to be a consultant
There’s a mindset, and I think from us as disabled artists points of view, where we’ve got to become a lot more confident at being ‘out there’, at being bold and, unfortunately, you know, we get tired from fighting, because we’ve been fighting all our lives for rights. So we don’t want to fight all the time.
I didn’t want to be a consultant. I didn’t want to be an “activist”. … I literally just wanted to play some music and sing some lovely songs…
I did a funding application recently, and I called it “John Kelly is not a TED talk”, because if I wanted, I could actually make my living from just doing the consultancy stuff. Yeah, because everyone wants me to talk about it. But nobody wants to book me as an artist. (Well, maybe because I’m rubbish! [absolutely not the case. ed.])
I didn’t want to be a consultant. Like I, I didn’t want to be an “activist”. And I don’t mean that in a way that I don’t want to see change happen. I mean, in a way of: I literally just wanted to play some music and sing some lovely songs and have a good time and go about my business. But I think the way the industry is structured, it forces me to do that.
Jacqui: I had to give away a lot of free consultancy. If I had been booked for a gig, suddenly now I’m the “access person”. Now I’m helping them find a BSL interpreter, or this and that. And it’s like, no other person on the lineup is having to do the extra work – it’s another job.
“But you don’t have any more money for me? What do you want me to do? I can do that, no problem. For an extra five grand. Yes. No problem. You find the money, I can do it for you. As an artist ( I’ve been doing it for a little bit now!) my boundaries are very strict. “I have no problem doing that for you, but you have to pay me.” Or “I can do one or the other, but I can’t do both because it really takes away from that moment of like, ‘Oh, I’ve got a gig. I’m super excited – but I’m using all of my energy to check: is it accessible?’ I don’t want to have to have those same roles on the same day.
I just want to go in, laugh and joke and sing prettily and just go about my business and come off the stage and just live off that adrenaline for a little bit. Often, as soon as I’m off the stage I have to go lay down because I’ve spent all of my energy, all of my ‘spoons’ on just existing – and then I don’t really enjoy it and then you get home and you’re a bit like, oh, I don’t think I enjoy it any more.
Fitting into the industry?
The important thing for us now is we’re starting to realize that inclusion isn’t about us ‘fitting into’ the music industry. I’m not here to try and fit into the music industry. We’re already here and we’re trying to amplify our voices. We’re trying to put it out there and when we put on shows we put on the best we can put on. And audiences love it. Audiences do pay.
I’ll give a shout out to the Tredegar House Folk Festival because they’re one example of a festival who’ve worked really hard over the last few years to make things more and more accessible.
There are some really good examples of festivals, of venues who are really making the effort. And they will make their money back because, you know, we do sell tickets and we do sell albums. What’s really inspiring and important is that we’re making these connections and we are becoming stronger as a, as a movement, if you like.
We will find a way
Jacqui: Sometimes we go through life with blinders on, as if it doesn’t directly affect us; ’that’s happening over there, that’s not a problem for me’. [Conversely], as soon as it’s brought to your attention that your gig is not accessible, if you’re doing one little thing to change your gigs to make them more accessible every time then this is good. I’m not saying you have to have, like, have all of the access covered, just one little thing.
If not, then you’re making a choice to exclude people because someone has brought it to your attention. It’s different if you never knew about it. You didn’t even think about it. I can give you a little bit of leeway. But as soon as you know, it’s now a choice whether or not you do that or not and a lot of people use the excuse that it’s just so expensive.
I don’t want to fight like I’m fighting for rights … then I come to my career, my job, the thing that I love. And have to keep fighting, it’s exhausting,
Access is expensive. But us as disabled artists, we will find a way. And if that means that all of my band get paid and I get half of what my band is getting because I really needed that access thing to be there, that’s a choice that I have to make; but I shouldn’t have to make that choice.
So what’s your excuse now?
“We don’t have the money.” So how do you think we do it? Yeah. Cause I still have rent to pay. I still have bills to pay. I still have people depending on me and I still want to be young and have a fun life and travel the world and all of that great stuff. But, for me as an artist, it’s about how do I make my shows accessible?
Yeah. It just doesn’t seem fair. Because non disabled artists don’t have to have that same fight or argument. And again, I don’t know what’s going on in non disabled people’s lives. I have never been non disabled. So I don’t know what you guys deal with. That’s a ‘you’ problem(!) But, like, I don’t want to fight like I’m fighting for rights. I’m fighting societal, like, things and X, Y, and Z – then I come to my career, my job, the thing that I love. And have to keep fighting, it’s exhausting,
John: I’ve been really lucky in my career that I’ve done some really big gigs. I’ve had opportunities to play, you know, with the best of them. And when I’ve played with the best of them, I’ve experienced a level of freedom and a level of access. So I know that with the money, it’s there. You know, when you experience freedom, it can never be taken away from you.
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